AccueilAccueil  FAQFAQ  RechercherRechercher  MembresMembres  GroupesGroupes  S'enregistrerS'enregistrer  ConnexionConnexion  

Partagez | 
 

 Philippe Sarde

Voir le sujet précédent Voir le sujet suivant Aller en bas 
AuteurMessage
Morricone



Messages : 2
Date d'inscription : 08/07/2008

MessageSujet: Philippe Sarde   Mar 8 Juil - 1:48

He was my favorite French composer for a very long time. Écoutez le Cinéma has released more of his old score than anyone else, but not lately. Among the LPs not released are SORTIE DE SECOURS, LE CHOC, l'ADOLESCENTE and LA NUIT ENSOLEILLEE, not mentioning the many totally unreleased scores of his. So any Philippe Sarde planned in our immediate future?
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur
kfigaro



Messages : 1483
Date d'inscription : 30/06/2008
Age : 47

MessageSujet: Re: Philippe Sarde   Mar 8 Juil - 10:31

Hello Morricone ! Wink

Philippe Sarde is also my favorite composer ! I love his music since I have 14 years old.

- "Sortie de secours" is a great score but it's very short, and I dont know if Stéphane Lerouge plan to edit it (the film is very obscure, rare, totally forgotten and his music is very strange).

- "Le choc" will probably have a CD edition in the next months or years.

You can hear almost the whole "L'adolescente" is the CD "Les égarés" (with Stéphane Grappelli and The London Symphony Orchestra, it's the same musicians and the same music) :



but unfortunately, the CD is deleted Sad Sad Sad

- "La nuit ensoleillée" is a very special score, personally I dislike this music very much...
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur http://astore.amazon.fr/chet-21/
Taboulez



Messages : 310
Date d'inscription : 02/07/2008
Age : 31

MessageSujet: Re: Philippe Sarde   Mar 8 Juil - 18:55

I'm very interested by how are received french composers by the foreigners, especially Philippe Sarde Very Happy .

Last times, randomly, I've found two links:
http://www.moviemusic.com/mb/Forum1/HTML/008768.html
http://musicfromthemovies.com/review.asp?ID=1112

Those links confirm my idea that the more internationalisable (and maybe timeless) Sarde's scores are its spectacular works for full orchestra Very Happy .

Moreover, I particulary agree with a lot of things in the second link (the critic), where it is said that Sarde is probably Europe's finest film composer (still alive).
According with the critic of the album, Lovesick is the best segment of the CD and it's also my opinion (even if kfigaro doesn't agree on this point Wink ).
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur
kfigaro



Messages : 1483
Date d'inscription : 30/06/2008
Age : 47

MessageSujet: Re: Philippe Sarde   Mar 8 Juil - 19:44

In fact, "Lovesick" re-used integrality the beautiful main theme of an very obscure film of Eric Lehung with Omar Sharif named "Le droit d'aimer" (1972) :



I've listened to the score a few days ago, and it's exactly the same one except that it is orchestrated primarily for piano and strings and that "Lovesick" sounds more "sweetened" (even that between the "passage" of the sad and minimalist theme of "Le chat" to that of "Ghost story", one loses in savour and decency what one gains in orchestral "richness")
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur http://astore.amazon.fr/chet-21/
Chris1770



Messages : 155
Date d'inscription : 07/07/2008
Localisation : Suisse

MessageSujet: Re: Philippe Sarde   Mar 8 Juil - 20:50

Yes, he's become a recycler of his own during the last few years. But not only then, as you've already pointed out, he did it with many other scores of his.

When I first discovered this it was with "Ghost Story" - I had the CD first - then I watched "Le Chat". That was a surprise for me to hear the same theme in it he later would use for "Ghost Story".

Well we know that it's quite common that composers reuse ideas they've already tried in other works. But it seems to me, that Philippe Sarde lost a great deal of will, or whatever it might be, to creat fresher music. That's why I would not rank him among the greatest French film composers. I'd rather name Honegger (among others) perhaps. Well, Honegger is half Swiss actually.
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur http://stores.ebay.com/SuizoScore-Soundtrack-Store_W0QQcolZ4QQdi
Taboulez



Messages : 310
Date d'inscription : 02/07/2008
Age : 31

MessageSujet: Re: Philippe Sarde   Mar 8 Juil - 23:04

Chris1770 a écrit:
Well we know that it's quite common that composers reuse ideas they've already tried in other works. But it seems to me, that Philippe Sarde lost a great deal of will, or whatever it might be, to creat fresher music. That's why I would not rank him among the greatest French film composers. I'd rather name Honegger (among others) perhaps. Well, Honegger is half Swiss actually.

In fact, for me, theses blames don't pass the technical exam Wink .
Indeed, Philippe Sarde is really one of the french film composers with the finest science of musical writing (in theses 40 last years, I don't know, in France, which film composer was able to write scores with the same inventivity, technical virtuosity, and high level of requirement that "Quest for Fire", "The Tenant", "Les Seins de Glace", "Le Choix des Armes", "Sept Morts sur Ordonnance" or "Coup de Torchon"): in my opinion, in the balance, that fact weighs highly more than the trend to, sometimes, recycle, re-harmonise, and re-orchestrate same themes (and finally: what's a theme ? It's just a simple succession of notes, it's not the harmony or any other real parameter of an inventive composition Very Happy ).

ps: But I agree with you when you say that the film music of Honegger is one of the greatest in the french cinema Very Happy
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur
Chris1770



Messages : 155
Date d'inscription : 07/07/2008
Localisation : Suisse

MessageSujet: Re: Philippe Sarde   Mer 9 Juil - 12:12

Taboulez a écrit:
[…] Philippe Sarde is really one of the french film composers with the finest science of musical writing (in theses 40 last years, I don't know, in France, which film composer was able to write scores with the same inventivity, technical virtuosity, and high level of requirement that "Quest for Fire", "The Tenant", "Les Seins de Glace", "Le Choix des Armes", "Sept Morts sur Ordonnance" or "Coup de Torchon") […]
No question about that.

But name me a recent score (1995-2008) of his that could be praised in the same way.
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur http://stores.ebay.com/SuizoScore-Soundtrack-Store_W0QQcolZ4QQdi
Morricone



Messages : 2
Date d'inscription : 08/07/2008

MessageSujet: Re: Philippe Sarde   Jeu 10 Juil - 21:50

This may sound terrible but back in the seventies a number of composers were accused of having ghost writers for their large output. Among the composers accused were Ennio Morricone, Francis Lai and Sarde. I dismissed it all at the time. But unlike the others there are aspects of the way Sarde absolutely transposes material for a number of years now that really give me pause. Hey, this is from a fan but it is really unsettling. Add to that Sarde gives few interviews to clear anything up or even give rudimetary explanations for some of this. As I said I would like to see many of his early scores released but having purchased the last half dozen or so, makes me not at all interested in any of his new output, because, to be frank, it isn't.
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur
kfigaro



Messages : 1483
Date d'inscription : 30/06/2008
Age : 47

MessageSujet: Re: Philippe Sarde   Ven 11 Juil - 10:27

Philippe Sarde actually was marked several times to be not the true author of his music. But where the paternity of the music of Michel Magne or Gainsbourg poses really problem (since it is known today that Michel Colombier was the true father of several scores and not only of the orchestrations), the esthetics of the Sarde of the 70s is immediately recognizable and does not find oneself under the "track" of another musician, then obviously a Hubert Rostaing (and undoubtedly also Carlos Savina) also worked in silence in small hand, except that it would be forget a little quickly the fact that the first scores of Sarde (which were not orchestrated by Rostaing !) are as "sardiens" as the following ones! (I think of "Les choses de la vie", "Le chat", "Sortie de secours" and its atonal writing, etc...).

I agree with morricone for saying that the Sarde of the 90s and 2000s is less enthralling than the Sarde archi creative of the 70s, but how much musicians of cinema can pride itself on the privilege to have an absolutely equal inspiration during several decades! even Goldsmith saw its creativity dropping with the passing of years (and even his fans recognizes it!)

After these attacks, Philippe Sarde also affirmed that not only he was the real author of his scores including orchestrations (even if the detail of the writing of each instrument part is entrusted to his collaborators, exactly as in the USA besides! rare being the composers who entirely orchestrate themselves : Michel Legrand, Morricone, Delerue, etc...) and that if he re-used an old theme for a very new film, it was not by facility but because he knows that this precise theme (that can be for example a secondary old theme used for principal new theme, or the reverse) will be appropriate perfectly for the cinematographic scene.
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur http://astore.amazon.fr/chet-21/
Chris1770



Messages : 155
Date d'inscription : 07/07/2008
Localisation : Suisse

MessageSujet: Re: Philippe Sarde   Ven 11 Juil - 15:55

Morricone a écrit:
This may sound terrible but back in the seventies a number of composers were accused of having ghost writers for their large output. Among the composers accused were Ennio Morricone, Francis Lai and Sarde.

That's very interesting. I'was not aware of that but not really surprised about such accusations, either. One question is, who was behind that intrigue? The motives seem to be very clear, fighting unwelcomed contenders in the field; not to forget envy by people who considered those foreigner as a threat.

I've got the impression that Ennio Morricone especially had a hard time in American cinema. That he never won as a Oscar nomee is telling enough. On the other way, John Barry seemed to have been met with considerable contempt as well in his early days as a film composer. But somehow he managed to turn over the hostility into good will.

In the case of Lai, it is quite obvious that he got tremendous help by his arrangers, like Jean Musy who fleshed out Lai's ideas. Lai was not proud to admit it in interview either.


Morricone a écrit:
But unlike the others there are aspects of the way Sarde absolutely transposes material for a number of years now that really give me pause. Hey, this is from a fan but it is really unsettling. Add to that Sarde gives few interviews to clear anything up or even give rudimetary explanations for some of this. As I said I would like to see many of his early scores released but having purchased the last half dozen or so, makes me not at all interested in any of his new output, because, to be frank, it isn't.

It's also interesting to hear how different Sarde's music sounds depending on the orchestraters he uses.

The last score of his that I really appreciate is "Dis-moi oui" (1995), but it's mostly an adaption of somebody else's composition if my memory serves me well. "La fille d'Artagnan" and "L.627" are not to be overlooked either. As a matter of fact, I've listened to "L.627 just recently and thought it was a great score. Funny that this score constantly reminds me of Nino Rota's.

On the other hand I found "Colette" very disappointing. And as I've been told, it is basically a transpositon of earlier Sarde.

It is true that many composers loose their vitality for fresh inspirations when they get older. Name Maurice Jarre or John Barry. It's obviously a problem. But Philippe Sarde isn't that old yet.
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur http://stores.ebay.com/SuizoScore-Soundtrack-Store_W0QQcolZ4QQdi
Chris1770



Messages : 155
Date d'inscription : 07/07/2008
Localisation : Suisse

MessageSujet: Re: Philippe Sarde   Ven 11 Juil - 16:03

kfigaro a écrit:
But where the paternity of the music of Michel Magne or Gainsbourg poses really problem (since it is known today that Michel Colombier was the true father of several scores and not only of the orchestrations)

Regarding Gainsbourg, you can add Alain Goraguer, Jean-Claude Vannier and Jean-Pierre Sabar to that distinguished group of helpers. At least the great G. had the good taste to hire people who really understood what to do with those sketches. - This does not mean, that Magne had no taste...
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur http://stores.ebay.com/SuizoScore-Soundtrack-Store_W0QQcolZ4QQdi
kfigaro



Messages : 1483
Date d'inscription : 30/06/2008
Age : 47

MessageSujet: Re: Philippe Sarde   Ven 11 Juil - 16:23

Citation :
"L.627 just recently and thought it was a great score. Funny that this score constantly reminds me of Nino Rota's.
Yes, very ironic and expressionist writing, it's a true Nino Rota's spirit... Wink

Citation :
On the other hand I found "Colette" very disappointing. And as I've been told, it is basically a transpositon of earlier Sarde.
"Colette" (just like "Les égarés" was a complete re-use of "L'adolescente") is a re-use of "Harem", a beautiful old score written for Arthur Joffé :



The music of "Harem/Colette" is full of oriental tunes and lyrical passages... And the CD of "Colette" is important because "Harem" was not edited on LP/CD when the film was on the screen.

Citation :
But Philippe Sarde isn't that old yet.
Yes but he wrote enormously and very precociously... so the final result is the same ! Very Happy
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur http://astore.amazon.fr/chet-21/
Lokutus



Messages : 8
Date d'inscription : 05/07/2008

MessageSujet: Re: Philippe Sarde   Ven 7 Nov - 23:05

Has anyone found tracklist of upcoming QUEST FOR FIRE? Is it a reissue, expanded or shorter than previous release on Milan Records?
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur
kfigaro



Messages : 1483
Date d'inscription : 30/06/2008
Age : 47

MessageSujet: Re: Philippe Sarde   Ven 7 Nov - 23:44

I have not the tracklist yet but I'm sure that the new edition was a expanded reissue and that it will be longer than Milan : the future edition will certainly included the unreleased "Main title" and others bonus tracks with a remastered sound.
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur http://astore.amazon.fr/chet-21/
Contenu sponsorisé




MessageSujet: Re: Philippe Sarde   Aujourd'hui à 12:39

Revenir en haut Aller en bas
 
Philippe Sarde
Voir le sujet précédent Voir le sujet suivant Revenir en haut 
Page 1 sur 1
 Sujets similaires
-
» Historique des chronos Patek Philippe à QP et revue du chrono QP 5970
» Recherche sur Philippe Daudet
» SOMMAIRE DU GRIMOIRE DE PHILIPPE DE NEUVILLE
» Recueil de Philippe de Neuville
» Lange 1 Timezone VS Patek Philippe WT

Permission de ce forum:Vous ne pouvez pas répondre aux sujets dans ce forum
Forum non officiel de la collection “Écoutez le Cinéma” :: International Forum (in English) :: Composers-
Sauter vers: